How Hegseth could reshape the Defense Department under Trump

For perspective on President-elect Trump’s pick of Pete Hegseth to be Secretary of Defense, Nick Schifrin spoke with James McPherson. He served as under secretary of the Army and as the Army’s general council during the first Trump administration. He also had a 25-year career in the Navy and served as that service’s top lawyer in uniform.
Nick Schifrin:
For a perspective on president-elect Trump’s pick to be secretary of defense, we turn to James McPherson. He served as undersecretary of the Army and as the Army’s general counsel during the Trump administration. He also had a 25-year career in the Navy and served as that service’s top lawyer in uniform.
James McPherson, thanks very much. Welcome back to the “News Hour.”
What is your reaction to the nomination of Pete Hegseth?
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret.), Former U.S. Undersecretary of the Army: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be with you.
Well, I think Mr. Hegseth has an impressive record. He went to prestigious schools. He’s a major in the Minnesota National Guard and multiple deployments, combat deployments, that resulted in personal decorations. I think he’s well qualified to be a lieutenant colonel in the Minnesota National Guard.
Does that qualify him to be secretary of defense? That’s a question that the Senate is going to have to wrestle with during the confirmation and that your viewers are going to have to wrestle with when they judge the quality that they’re receiving from the Trump administration.
Nick Schifrin:
Let me go…
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret).: I think there’s two things that — yes, sir.
Nick Schifrin:
Sorry. You continue.
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret).: I think there’s — I would urge the Senate to look at two things with regard to his record. First is competence. Does he have the record demonstrating competence in what is probably the most important and the most powerful job in the Cabinet?
The secretary of defense has a number of hats he wears. And one of them is, he is in the operational chain of command. It’s actually the secretary of defense that makes the decision to send our sons and daughters overseas in harm’s way.
In addition to that, he also leads and manages the largest organization in our government, one of the largest organizations in the world. Does he have the character and the competence to do that? And when I say character, I mean, does he have the courage to say to the president, if the president has an idea that perhaps would damage our standing, our national security standing overseas or at home, does he have the courage to say, Mr. President, that’s not a good idea, we really shouldn’t do that?
Again, that’s a decision that the Senate is going to have to make during this confirmation.
Nick Schifrin:
Let me ask you about your experience in the Army. As I said, you had a top job in the Army during a moment that I highlighted, when then-President Trump pardoned two Army soldiers accused of murdering Afghan civilians and reversed the demotion of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher.
What was the impact of then-President Trump’s moves then?
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret.):
It sent a terrible message, especially with regard to those three individuals were alleged to have committed war crimes. The two Army officers were alleged to have ordered their men to kill civilians.
And one of the individuals had been convicted of that, including a court-martial and sentenced to Leavenworth, and the other was pending a court-martial. The pardon that came down really sent the message to the troops in the field that you don’t have obey the laws of war. You don’t have to adhere to the Geneva Conventions. You can kill civilians.
That’s something that our Army, our nation simply does not do. Our people wouldn’t stand for that. You’re supposed to protect civilians on the battlefield, not victimize them.
Nick Schifrin:
Mr. Hegseth had a role in convincing then-President Trump of making those decisions. Are you concerned by his role in that moving forward?
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret.):
Well, his role was to advocate for those pardons that the president awarded while he was with FOX News.
He repeatedly had members of the family, wives of the two Army officers on to tell their side of the story. And really the Army didn’t have an opportunity to tell its side of the story. And it was the FOX News advocacy that prompted then-President Trump to grant those pardons. And that is a concern.
Nick Schifrin:
As I — as you mentioned at the top, he’s a veteran, won two Bronze Stars, served in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. Does that kind of experience help when it comes to leading the Department of Defense?
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret.):
Well, it’s the experience that he knows what it is like to be a troop in the field. And that’s important. We have seen that in previous secretaries, both Secretary Mattis, Secretary Esper.
And I think it’s important that that experience is under his belt. But it certainly was on a lower level. He led troops as a major. He probably had maybe 10, 15, 20 people he was in charge of. That’s vastly different than what he’s going to be called upon to do as secretary of defense.
Nick Schifrin:
The top of my story highlighted some of his criticism of what he called the DEI woke stuff. Have diversity efforts had an impact on military readiness, in your opinion?
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret.):
Not in my opinion. I haven’t seen that. I haven’t heard that from the people that I stay in contact with.
What you’re referencing there is very troubling. And that is the creation of this panel that’s going to review general and admirals and see if they are woke. That evidence is a misunderstanding of the role of an admiral and a general.
Admirals and generals execute lawful policy and lawful orders. It’s a policy that an administration sets that guides the Pentagon, and it’s expected that those officers will implement that policy. It’s not a policy that they may like. They don’t have to like it. As long as it’s lawful, they have to execute it.
And that’s exactly what these officers have been doing. When the Trump administration moves into the White House, they can change those policies. They can issue new policies. And they will find that their admirals and their generals will execute those policies.
Decades now, we have heard it called it was Bush’s generals, or it was Obama’s generals, or it was Trump’s generals. That’s just a misunderstanding of what the role is and how generals really attain that rank. They’re selected by boards that select them — those that are best and well qualified. And it’s a meritocracy.
They’re not appointed, like civilian presidential appointees. And now to say that you’re going to judge them upon execution of a lawful policy, it doesn’t make sense.
Nick Schifrin:
What would be the impact then if the new administration went beyond just simply changing the policy, as Mr. Hegseth has threatened, as former Trump officials tell me is possible, to fire the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, to fire service chiefs, to fire combatant commanders, as you just said, deemed — quote — “too woke”?
What would be the impact?
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret.):
I think it would send a terrible message. I think it would send a terrible message that the United States military is no longer a meritocracy. You’re not selected for promotion because of the tremendous job that you have done in previous assignments. You’re selected for promotion as long as you adhere to the policies of the current administration.
That’s an anathema to the officer corps.
Nick Schifrin:
James McPherson, thank you very much.
Rear. Adm. James McPherson (Ret.):
Thank you